We're all in this together.
Keep your stick on the ice.
Oh crap, I'm French Canadian. I believe in giving young children a taste of beer or wine so that they avoid it till they're older. Also, I don't see anything wrong with a 13 year old having a glass of wine on a special occasion, like at a wedding or at Christmas.CPS overreacted BIG TIME. I hope the father sues them to high heaven. I especially liked the part about the boy being taken to hospital in an ambulance, after apparently less than a single drink...only to have doctors realize the boy had a 0% blood alcohol level. BWAHAHAHAHA!
Leave it to the state to turn an innocent,simple mistake where no one was really hurt and turn it into a situation where the child might really get messed up - Steve Martin
This is something my wife and I have been talking about lately in light of the raid on the Mormons in Texas.....It's more than a little disturbing that a phone call from someone who won't identify themself can set into motion a massive raid on a Mormon compound.It has to be the idea of a compound though as opposed to a gathering of religious folks in a certain area.I think what it all comes down to is that the 'state' hates the idea that a group of people can function within itself and needs no interaction outside its own walls to survive. Think about it....you live your life and practice your religion peacefully and quietly. Then one day someone calls and says that a child is being abused. The caller is not identified and has to prove nothing. The next day hundreds of state employed police are swarming your 'compound' and then forcibly take away the women and children.Now, I'm against child abuse. Children should never be harmed. But how is it that a single phone call can take away your children without you having any say so in the matter and now will have to fight the courts on your own dime?
So, Texas should have disregarded the anonymous phone call even though it has been found that child abuse is widespread there? Should the police get rid of their "remain anonymous" programs they all have? They might have been living peacefully practicing their religion, but that still doesn't justify the treatment of children. What if they were a bunch of atheists living in this "compound" peacefully, but committing the same offenses?
No, the Texas authorities acted appropriately and did what they had to do. 31 of the teens under 18 had been pregnant or were pregnant. That is enough right there.
Duaghter1 (17) can't be bothered with the idea of alcohol let alone the taste. Daughter2 (14) has always had a taste whenever we drink. I think that is responsible parenting otherwise they go mad when they get the chance.Not being drawn on state intervention other than to say there have to be checks and balances and someone has to look out for the vulnerable.
Folks - Don't misunderstand me please. I said children should never be harmed or abused......and the folks who do harm and abuse children should be put away for a long time.DB and Nator - What would happen if some called the law anonymously about your family. The call said, wrongly, that you have been abusing your children sexually and physically.The law comes to your house...will enter your house against your protest of innocence...take your children away screaming...put them in foster care for the next month or two while you spend every last dime to prove your not guilty of these charges. What a horrible senario that could happen to you from an anonymous call.Now I'm not talking about legit abuse that needs to be dealt with...I'm talking about assumed guilt before any investigation has taken place.
What would happen if some called the law anonymously about your family. The call said, wrongly, that you have been abusing your children sexually and physically.Well, using the operative word "wrongly" as you put it, I would take action against the police. Spinning the story doesn't change the facts. Abuse was indeed found, make no mistake. Someone reported abuse anonymously, and the police have plenty of evidence of abuse. I don't see the controversy here. Had no evidence of abuse been found, they should sue because then their rights would have been violated. Had that been the case, I would be singing a different tune. Can you imagine how much more horror those kids would have to go through had the call not been made? The cult members disregarded the rights of those children, why should I defend the cult's rights to hide this abuse? Religious freedom stops in my book when that freedom means abusing children.
Well, I see the comments (in a large sense) have nothing to do with this case. We used this as a springboard.
"Well, using the operative word "wrongly" as you put it, I would take action against the police."Nevertheless........your kids would have been taken away and you will spend a long time and a lot of money clearing the case.
DBLets make the assumption that there is indeed 31 cases of abuse. Does that justify removing 436 children including a 1 day old child from one of the young mothers?Why have none of the alleged abusers been charged with a crime? If there was indeed this much abuse going on then heads need to roll on the part of the abusers, but this does not justify the wholesale kidnaping of all these children. Also you need to keep in mind that the legal age of consent in TX is 16.
I agree with eaglewood. There has been no action taken on the alleged criminals; only taking away the children. So far this screams of something wrong. I think we can all hope that it is false accusations, for wouldn't that be better on the kids.
31 cases of abuseThat is only the pregnancy, I am positive there is plenty of evidence of other forms of sexual abuse of children. But yes, it does justify it if it is the environment that is the problem. That is an awfully high percentage even if that is all they found! FLDS expects innocent girls to be married off and bear the children of the older men at very young ages, well below the age of consent. To defend this abuse is to defend that practice. The phone call reported abuse, and that is what was found. I don't know why there are no charges, but I am sure that has more to do with the police than it does with lack of evidence.I think we can all hope that it is false accusations, for wouldn't that be better on the kids.I hope not. I can't imagine those kids going back into that environment where 14 year-olds are expected to lay with 50 year-olds. I can't believe I am the only one defending these kids against abuse. Would you guys seriously allow your 16 year old daughter (for sake of the "consent" argument) to sleep with/marry a 50 year-old man? Would that be ok if she was 14? Would you be defending these people's abuse of their children if they were atheists?I can't believe I am hearing justifications for allowing the sexual abuse of children to continue. I can't believe you guys are not only ok with the children going back into that lifestyle without the option of ever leaving, but "hoping" for it.Actually, Christians should be thankful these children were saved, have the opportunity to know the real Christ, than to continue to follow their false prophets leading ultimately to their doom?
DB I was at work and having to leave rather quickly when I wrote what I did so it was rushed. So let me be quite clear NO ONE HERE IS CONDONING ABUSE PERIOD. (caps are used for emphases not shouting) I do not think that I can make myself any clearer than this. If there is real sexual abuse of underage girls then those who have perpetrated that abuse should be hung out to where the buzzards can pick their bone clean.With this said there have been some serious breaches of our constitutionally protected rights in this case. An anonymous is a spring board for an investigation not an invasion and kidnapping of 437 children including one that was taken from his/her mother on the day of his/her birth. If abuse is found during that investigation then you arrest the perpetrators of that abuse.“I hope not. I can't imagine those kids going back into that environment where 14 year-olds are expected to lay with 50 year-olds. I can't believe I am the only one defending these kids against abuse. Would you guys seriously allow your 16 year old daughter (for sake of the "consent" argument) to sleep with/marry a 50 year-old man? Would that be ok if she was 14? Would you be defending these people's abuse of their children if they were atheists?”You are setting up a straw man argument here. As I stated we are not condoning abuse. We have serious issue with the state in HOW they went about doing what they have done. The fact that the CPS can circumvent the constitution simply because the agency has been conveniently named a civil agency and not a law enforcement agency is more than troubling for those of us who believe that our government should be beholden to this document. This has nothing to do with abuse (other than governmental), or religious belief whether it be FLDS, Buddhist, Christian, or Atheist.As a homeschooling father and a follower of Yeshua I have heard many a time about the evils of homeschooling and that teaching children any kind of religious teaching should be considered abuse. If that were ever to happen the state would simply come in and take my children. I would have no say in the matter at all, case closed. Where do we stand then.“Actually, Christians should be thankful these children were saved, have the opportunity to know the real Christ, than to continue to follow their false prophets leading ultimately to their doom?”Again an emotional straw man argument. While we as followers of Yeshua truly desire for everyone to come to know His love and saving grace, they are not going to find Him by using the jackboots of governmental tyranny.
bone = bonesI should proofread more than once.
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