Monday, March 31, 2008

Believe God or...

Brian Culver. Brian has been removed from my links. Not for calling me a troll, but twisting things to fit how he wishes them to be in complete disregard for God's words. I don't think he really understands some things and perverts things to please himself.
This is going to be a long rant.
It isn't to diss Brian, as much as a warning for us to be examining ourselves.
(Hey Brian, I never said the Bible was inerrant, I said it about you)

Brian thought this was innappropriate for this post he had:

After reading all of this, I am quite sure that I am not nearly so righteous as all of you are.

And for this thing, I give thanks.

I understand that Doorman Priest is a real genuine human being. If someone questioned my salvation it would bother me too. At least a little.
But you wouldn't need to worry.
Your salvation is secure.
A beacon set on a hill cannot be hidden.
I just wonder why I feel like I'm unable to see much light as I look here.

Ah, I know. I must not be a Christian. So be it. I will follow Christ. With or without the label.
And I know he constantly ridiculed others for not following Him exactly and perfectly. Or not...
There was a fellow casting out demons. The young brash immature followers of Jesus couldn't stand it. Reminds me of something... ;)
And Jesus fully agreed with them and verbally accosted the man. Or not...

I don't expect you to understand what I've written. I expect you to reassure yourselves that you are well and good and right.
I do it quite often myself.
But then again, I'm human.
Saved? Yes.
Pompous? Sometimes.
Able to admit my faults? Sure.
Willing to be so absolutely correct in my judgments? More often than I'm willing to admit.
Sure that this post isn't what Jesus ever intended of His followers? Absolutely.

Rock rock ROCK

(Stuff to use when you want to respond to my comment)

The next comment I left was also deleted:

“Oh yeah, one last thing.
Look at my blog and realize that I can talk to many about Christ. And though we may not all agree, we are at least interested in spreading the word.
You are insulated and unable to properly and ably defend your position and hence fall back on "No more comments"
Good luck.
I think you're going to need it.
Prayer and study don't seem to be working as much as they should for you.
I think there are some verses about studying to show yourself approved.
Sounds like a great post idea.
What do you think? ;)”

I know I should turn the other cheek.
And there is so much more I can say.
But I will stop now.
He won't accept my comments.
And when he does, he distorts or chops pieces of import out.

I just needed to vent.
My apologies to all who are offended by my being human.
But to be honest, Jesus treated those who think they are 'all that' far worse.
Pray for Brian?
Yes. Absolutely I will.
Trust him?
As far as I can throw him.


Geppy said...

Peace unto you bro. Always pray for others. But from what I've seen in the blogosphere, you shouldn't trust most. There are some good people out there, but most aren't. Oh... wait... that sounds like real life; and like what Jesus warned us it would be like for those who follow him.

Again, peace unto you.

Doorman-Priest said...

Got that off your chest now?

What can I say? Been there, was misrepresented and vilified, was shocked and disappointed and bought the "rejected by Brian" T-shirt. I am a wiser man for the experience and these are my post -Brian thoughts.

I keep an open blog. I am not sure why some other folk keep the message very restricted.

If you disagree with someone isn't it better to keep the lines of communication open so that dialogue may continue?

I will never know where a long term blog relationship with PBC would have taken us both. For my part I didn't reject everything he said at all and I certainly learned from him, but I can not be moulded into that churchmanship.

We are each, at our ages, the products of our own pilgrimages and are what the Holy Spirit is and has been making us in our own spiritual, cultural, national and regional contexts. Our spirituality and churchmanship doesn't happen in an experiential vacuum.

I am sure I could have been like PBC in almost every way, but the Spirit led he and I on different paths. I can recognise the validity of his spirituality and churchmansship even though I may want to disagree with him on some things.

What is sad, Roland, is that he isn't willing to recognise the validity of ours.

Is PBC saved? Of course he is and I have no trouble acknowledging that.

Are you and I saved? As emphatic a yes there too but not in his eyes, it seems, because of the different churchmanship and spirituality.

That sort of monochrome Christianity would be very dull. I sometimes think the Spirit is naughty in His wisdom: Evangelical; Radical; Liberal; Catholic; Orthodox; Lutheran; Methodist; Anglican; Baptist; Pentecostal; Quaker; Emergent and so on. Why? Because that is how the Spirit moves in recognition of the complex expressions of spirituality and the infinite shades of the human psyche.

Are these faith stances destined to agree with each other? Well, yes and no, depending on the issue. Does that matter? More so to some than to others clearly.

My problem lies with those who are more concerned to concentrate on what divides us. I want to concentrate on what unites us.

If I can't convince someone by my theology and experience where does that leave me?
1) Maybe I am trying to rush the Spirit.
2) Maybe I need to prayerfully rethink my position. Am I always right? No.

What should I not do?
1) Demonise them.
2) Close down dialogue.

Doorman-Priest said...

Sorry: having reread that it could sound like you have demonised and closed down dialogue. No. It is PBC who has done that.

Are we too challenging to dialogue with? Too threatening?

We will never know.

Move on.

Key West Butterfly Girl said...


No. You're not too challenging; you simply ARE challenging. I believe BC has had his cage rattled a bit.

I sent him ONE post with ONE question. Nothing else. I simply asked why can't he agree to disagree. I was called a trolless.


Well articulated. Very much understand your thoughts and feelings. Yes, I believe there are several of us praying for him. That's all we can do.

Take the experience, learn from it and grow!

Roland said...

Is BC saved?
Hmmm... I don't want to say no, but I have some doubts.
Like Matthew 23:13-14
Luke 11:42-54
They came up in the message from Mar 30 at The Church of the Open Door

Thanks for your encouraging words everyone. I think Brian would disagree, if he ever dared to post here and witness to my lost soul. ;)

Nator said...

You stopped too early. Add Matthew 23:15 in the mix.

Timm said...

"Is BC saved?
Hmmm... I don't want to say no, but I have some doubts."

I'll admit, I haven't been keeping up with PBC's blog, (along with many others,) but I have had many conversations with him and i feel fairly certain that he is. Ultimately, that is between Him and God, but there's my two cents.

Sometimes people just can't get along....

Grandmère Mimi said...

Roland, I hear you. I have never commented at Pastor Culver's site, nor do I intend to. I'm sure I'd be labeled a trolless and my comments would be banned. It's not for me to say whether PC is saved. That's reserved for the judgment of God. Frankly, I'm relieved that I don't have to make that decision.

As to you, Roland, the God of love will be your judge, not Pastor Culver. Thanks be to God.

DP, you said:

What should I not do?
1) Demonise them.
2) Close down dialogue.

I did not demonize Wayne, but I did close down dialogue when Wayne said this:

If that is so Mimi, then we make Christ out as a liar and Scripture is in error.

How does one dialogue with a person who makes a statement like that? In addition, although he's quite polite about it, Wayne seems to have consigned me to hell. I find that to be quite provocative.

I did, in fact, continue the dialogue with Wayne when he posted our whole conversation from DP's site on his blog, but honestly, to what purpose I can't say. I don't know if I would do it again. It seems a fairly futile exercise.

Pray for Pastor Culver and Wayne? I'll certainly do that.

Roland, may God bless you and give you his peace that passes understanding to keep your mind and heart.

Roland said...

I don't know the condition of his soul either.
And since that is the case I would hesitate to firmly ensconce him in either place.
Nuts, I sometimes wonder about myself. I guess that would be self-examination, wouldn't it? ;)

Jeff Greathouse said...

I look forward to the day that all of us party together with PBC in heaven.

Rant away my friend, rant away. I was shocked that alot of my stuff was "pulled".

But, I understand that he does not want any of his followers to find us. That sentence sounds ....

Nator said...

Go on Jeff, say it. We know you want to!

Jeff Greathouse said...


i refrained myself from using the c word

Nator said...

Come on Jeff, don't be a ...


Roland said...


What's the word?
(Seriously. I'm dense sometimes.)

Key West Butterfly Girl said...

You left out COWARD.

Roland said...

Is it coward?

Jeff Greathouse said...

No, it is not.

I was thinking more along the lines of ......


Roland said...

And I thought I was mean!!!

(Honestly, I don't know how I missed that)

Nator said...

I don't know how I missed it either! I mean it is so obvious. All we are missing is the Kool-Aid!

Roland said...

Unfortunately Nator, they are probably thinking the same thing about us.

Jeff Greathouse said...


You are probably right. They think we are a cult or at least people who think we are Christians and are going to Hell.

The funny thing is that I do not think we would have "all connected" if we had not all been banned by him.

I don't think ( I could be wrong ) any of us really frequented each other blogs before his occurrence.

To me, I see it as him spoon feeding them what he wants and making sure that they don't read other views ...

I see it is my turn for his rants (long preaching)

Nator said...

Jeff, you are so right. I don't think we would have connected the same way. I would be interested to find out how you discovered his site and managed to be there the same time I was.

I had done a google search for people who didn't like youth specialties (after the Phyllis Tickle incident) and found his blog. He really dislikes them! I posted a couple times before the big blow up. And then came the famous, or imfamous, posting that we all joined in on. The rest, they say, is history.

Jeff Greathouse said...


I was doing a search on reason people change churches and when does that time come .... thus time2changechurches came up in that search.

eaglewood said...

I thought I could be narrow minded. But to cut off conversation because you disagree on language.

My wife and I have had many conversations on language and what constitutes "bad" languge. It seems to me that PCB needs to take a chill pill.
DP we may not agree on things but you are always welcome at my place. I have only once banned someone, but that was an extreme case of someone who slandered my wife and I.

Roland said...

You are right that we should be grateful for the adversities which bind us together. :)
Brian actually found me. He left a complimentary comment on one of my posts a few months back. I wonder if he remembers that. :D

Thanks for your input. It's very encouraging.

Roland said...

Since I know he won't let it through, but wanted it saved for posterity:

Brian said that someone said that Brian said that someone said that Brian said that someone said that Brian said that someone said that Brian said that someone said that Brian said that someone said that Brian said that someone said that Brian said that someone said that Brian said that someone said that Brian said that someone said that Brian said that someone said that Brian said that someone said that ....

Looks like your doing all the talking and no listening.
Did you know that your ears outnumber your mouth 2 to 1?

MikeT said...

My eyes glazed over after the first few paragraphs. I think this sort of thing is why I have lost interest in theology. Read the bible, trust that the message is true, and then move on. Culver strikes me as the sort of Christian that can machine gun you down with Bible verses, but can't do a lot more than that.

Doorman-Priest said...

Now Jeff, don't be disingenuous. PBC and Tim Brown caught us bang to rights. They knew we had been in secret communication for months plotting the pincer movement that would bring down PBC's ministry.

I can't fight against that level of perception and righteous indignation.

Jeff Greathouse said...


Too funny.

Nator said...

DP, don't give away our secrets! You dirty, filthy traitor!

Jeff Greathouse said...


Now, see that is the problem ;)

When people cut / paste comments and posts, the "sarcasm" and "cynicism" does not "transfer"

Check out my Blog in a while and see :)

Roland said...

I wish Brian could see the humor in this.
And Jeff, you can do sarcasm, its just not as clear. But it can be done. :P