Thursday, February 14, 2008

Being right

A friend and myself were talking about some spiritual things the other day.
He tends to be far more Calvinistic than I do.
So we each bring up our points and try to convince each other of their merits.

I thought about our conversation, later.
During the talk we talked about how the heart is desperately wicked.
We talked about whether or not he was more right, or whether I was.
Which led me to believe that we each follow our hearts.
We disagree, but we have a heart in the matter that we follow.

So I ask the question,
"If the heart is SO desperately wicked, why do you follow yours?"

I don't want to end this on such a cruddy note, so I will post some lyrics from this song by the David Crowder band.

Everything Glorious:
The day is brighter here with You
The night is lighter than its hue
Would lead me to believe
Which leads me to believe
You make everything glorious
You make everything glorious
You make everything glorious
And I am Yours
What does that make me?

So, that brings another question.
"If you believe God made you and your heart, what does that make you? What does that make your heart?"


Anonymous said...

You follow your heart, because your heart is all that you have. Your experiences combine with what you know and that gives you what you believe. If you haven't experienced it, it is hard to believe. Not saying impossible, but hard.

So I believe that Wesley had it right with his Quadrilateral: Scripture, Experience, Reason, Tradition. Many people will have issue with this but it doesn't eliminate the truth of it. People do use their experience combined with scripture, and their tradition. Their reason (brain)can't be excluded from this. If we ever stop thinking and start trusting, just because someone said it, then we give up the image of God. If God created us in his image, then he also gave us the ability to reason and imagine. To give up that ability is to ignore the image of God

layneh said...

I think its important to note that we are talking about the heart, in a non physical sense. That being the case, where would this "non physical heart" be?

Is it a part of the soul, spirit or something else?

God did not create a wicked heart, man did. This is why we must not live by our "heart", but rather by our faith.

I also agree with nator.

Pablo said...

"If the heart is SO desperately wicked, why do you follow yours?"

Because my mind is desperately wicked too.

Wonder Woman said...

Mmmm, cos I like desperate and wicked ;-P

Rar ...

Roland said...

Thanks, Nator. That IS a good response.

Layne, thanks. Good for me to ponder.
If our heart is in our faith, what kind of awesome thing would that be?

Pablo, I know. But is it ALWAYS there?

WW, So right in so many ways. Your responses almost always make me smile. Thanks.

j razz said...

In scripture the heart was commonly understood as the seat of all conscience and sometimes used interchangeably with soul (not always though).

We follow our heart because it guides us by God's common grace, but we must understand that it is corrupt and save for God's common grace (fleshed out by Abraham Kuyper), it would steer us wrong every time. Of course, I am speaking of an unregenerate person. Given the fact that God changes hearts, indeed gives new ones, those blessed with the gift of a new heart have the benefit of the Holy Spirit living within and helping to guide them in all truth.

We still war though. War against our nature that is corrupt and foul with sin, but we have more than common grace to see us through.

j razz

Ben (aka son_of_the_righthand) said...

I don't follow my heart per se. I follow my conscience, which I form by studying the Word in order to know that it leads me in the correct direction.

However, as you know Roland, I do not believe for one second that the heart (or the mind) is desperately wicked. That is an insult to or creator.

Doorman-Priest said...

When I'm at college on residentials, I sit up late with Mike, talking and drinking and putting the world to rights. We don't always agree, but we've become the best of friends.

Is it that our hearts are in the right place and therefore the rest is less important?

MikeT said...

I don't entirely trust my own heart. My heart sometimes wants to rip someone to shreds out of anger, while my brain says to forgive them and move on. Sometimes it's the other way around. You go with the instincts and instructions that you know are most likely to be guided by the hand of God, not based on which part of you and your life that they come from.

Anonymous said...

Ezekiel 36:26-27 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." This describes what it means to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit - getting a "heart transplant" or getting a heart that loves and follows God.

In Christ,

Roland said...

It's a good description.
But what does it look like when it's lived out?
That is what makes life so interesting, no?

Anonymous said...

roland - I will tell you what regeneration means in my life.

I was raised Catholic, did all the Catholic things, believed that God and Jesus existed, considered myself to be a good person (especially when I compared myself to others), that I would go to heaven when I died (was not really certain if there was a purgatory, but I never thought of myself as going to hell).
I graduate from high school, marry a Protestant - we both lose interest in church, one in awhile we attend Protestant services, but never join a church. I rarely read the Bible or prayed, and if I did only for the wrong reasons.
Then one evening several years ago I went to bed, I could not sleep, I start to vividly recall past sins in my life, this went on for several hours, I cried like I never cried before. I was so ashamed, so lost, I did not want to hurt God anymore - so I said a prayer I asked Jesus to forgive me and be my Lord and Savior. Words can hardly describe what happened next - intense peace came into my heart, my heart was warm, it seemed like I was in the presence of the "Prince of Peace" himself, it felt like a heavy burden was lifted off of me. I was saved by God's grace several hours after midnight - October 17, 2005.
God became real, close, and caring to me whereas before being saved he seemed far away and indifferent. Now I desire to pray and read the Bible, whereas before being saved it was done more out of obligation - there was no true desire on my part. Also sin that did not seem too sinful became distinctly sinful to me. Eventually I was baptised by immersion and joined a church.
I realized after being saved that all I had was a "head" faith and not a "heart" faith, I was on my way to hell and did not even know it.
Being born again is like getting a new heart or a new nature, you become a new creature "in Christ" which enables you to love and follow God.
Sadly I think most people say a "Sinner's prayer" thinking they are saved but there is no change in their life to prove it. True faith is preceded by conviction of sin and repentance, and the person continues to repent and believe the rest of their life.

In Christ,